A Laptop Price Comparison for the Mac Haters
The number one reason for not purchasing a Mac that I hear the Mac hating crowd is that Apple products are outrageously expensive. The mere proclamation of spending over $1000 on a simple MacBook rather than $499 on a netbook is the basic mantra most of the haters live by. Rather than competing on a level playing field by comparing the features of each laptop, haters lock in solely on the price and use the higher price point to their illogical advantage.
Are Mac laptops really that much more expensive than similar Wintel laptops? If you look at the prices at face value then the answer is a resounding YES. It is only when you delve in to a deeper contrast that you find the answer to not be so cut and dry.
I work in an environment which is resoundingly Windows oriented. From the System Engineers to mid-level-management to upper-management, our entire office centers around Microsoft Windows products. There is a certain bias towards Windows, both because it has been the operating system of choice for many years and because DoD prefers to work with a standard architecture. People are completely averse to change, so trying to get leadership to inject some defense-in-depth on the desktop operating system side of the house is a hugely tough sell these days.
Every day I try and advocate Apple products but run face first in to a brick wall when trying to sell people on the pluses. The brick wall is always price point – why would anyone consider spending an extra $800+ for an Apple laptop when there are inexpensive yet quite capable laptops sitting on the same shelf?
But isn’t comparing a $1299 MacBook to a $499 netbook or a $699 Dell laptop like comparing Apples to Oranges (no pun intended)? Think about the logic behind evaluating such products – is this truly an accurate comparison?
To truly comprehend the pricing Apple has chosen for their products you have to select similarly featured competing products. Otherwise what’s the point? It is simply not possible to compete solely on price – if price were the solitary deciding factor then why bother buying anything but one of those so-called netbook?
To demonstrate the price comparison I’ve chosen similarly spec’d products from Apple, Dell and HP. While the specifications on each of the following are not completely identical to the MacBook Pro, I’ve taken care to ensure the products are as similar as possible, based on the available online custom configuration options.
- MacBook Pro 15”
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.53GHz
4GB RAM
320GB HDD
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB
15.4” display - HP dv6t
Intel Core 2 Duo T9400 (2.53 GHz)
16.0″ diagonal High Definition HP Brightview Display (1366×768)
4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9200M GS
320GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
16” display - Dell XPS M1730
Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 (2.5GHz/800Mhz FSB/6MB cache)
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
320GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
NVIDIA®SLI™Dual GeForce®8700MGT with 512MB GDDR3 Memory
15.4” display
As you can see above, I only list the basic underlying hardware for each system – processor, RAM, HDD, video card and display size. Although important, the operating system and additional software offered are not part of the comparison. My goal is to merely point out the pricing based on a comparison of the fundamental hardware components of each laptop. The semantics of these additional features are purely subjective and difficult to quantify.
Without further ado, here is the price of each of the three previously configured products, from most expensive to least expensive.
- Apple MacBook Pro 15” – $2499
- Dell XPS M1730 – $2394
- HP dv6t – $1519
Just as everyone probably expected, the Apple product comes out as the most expensive of the three. However, notice the price of the Dell XPS laptop is not terribly different from the Apple. The HP dv6t is considerably less expensive than the competition – almost $1000 cheaper!
I could sit here and explain why the HP is so much less expensive than the Apple and Dell products, or how the Dell does X, Y or Z better or why I prefer the Apple MacBook Pro 15” but I refuse to do so – the haters consciously choose to block logic from such comparisons so there is no reason to inject it at this juncture.
The mere demonstration of price point should be enough to reveal that Apple products are not as outrageously priced as thought, or even overpriced for that matter. In my experience, you get what you pay for.
Either way, I find it fascinating the lengths both sides of this argument will go to prove their points, even though Captain Obvious is staring them directly in the face.
Are you an Apple hater who knowingly despises the company’s products because of their price point? If so, I would love to have a logical conversation on this topic. What are your thoughts?
Jark, been a long battle on this side of the Pacific too – when we do compare what you get under the hood (OS X and included standard SW) and contrast that with what you have to buy for a Windows PC – the price points jump significantly for the Dell and HP's. If you look at TCO, administrative support, reliability, training, security, and all the other factors – Hands down Macs are the better choice.
On the subject of netbooks though…. I wonder if Apple will/would/could make a netbook.
Canonical has developed a portable version of Ubuntu for netbooks. I think Apple *could* do something similar with OS X… thoughts?
I am one of those avid Wintel people. The reason why I refuse to use Apple products is because of the quality of Apple products. I'm not entirely sure if this goes for MacBooks, but the iPod is a horribly inferior product (there's a reason why Apple stores gladly exchange your boken iPod for a new one!)
Next to that I have always been surrounded by Windows environments in my jobs.
As I respect your opinion in the matter Rene, I find it hard to believe that the iPod is a horrible inferior product just because Apple will exchange a broken iPod for a new one. If we are to play the typical Wintel argument of marketshare, than the iPod wins hands down. (Look at Apples increase in iPod sales this last quarter) Apple focuses on good customer service over the price hit they would take. (ex. ipod exchanges, giving Final Cut away from free via email request, ect)
And as Scott said, he works in a Windows environment, but still prefers Mac over Wintel machines.
As a side note, my last Mac laptop lasted 5 years, and was able to run every OS update without any problems what-so-ever.
For DoD, tt's going to remain a long battle so long as DoD is solely concerned with price point rather than TCO and overall value. You and I both know that!
As for all the intangibles, you're right, but I did not want to get in to that aspect in the article because it's really all subjective in the end. What Windows guys find easy, Mac guys may find difficult – this works in reverse as well.
But I'm totally down with seeing *a lot* more Macs throughout DoD one of these days!
Apple most certainly could do a netbook but the question is would they? At this juncture I am not so sure they will. Apple is all about quality products and netbooks go totally against that premise – they're inexpensive for a reason.
I am positive that Apple is watching this space and actively researching it, but I find it hard to believe they will enter the netbook market in 2009.
My $0.02 anyhow.
I have never found Apple products to be inferior. I've owned a bazillion iPod's throughout the years and continue to use a 3G 20GB iPod in my wife's car. It works like a charm even though it is going on, what, 6-7 years now? How is that inferior?
As for their MacBook lineup, they rock. I've been using a MBP for almost 2 years now and still have a 5 year old PowerBook 17. Hardly inferior methinks. ;-)
Why does someone (like me) that buys a Window machine have to be a MAC hater? I don't have anything against MACs other than the price. I think it is a stable OS and is easy to use. I know Windows boxes have many more vulnerabilities, but as long as you keep the everything updated (which Vista reminds me about almost everyday) it seems pretty secure.
I do like the fact that Windows has competition to help keep them honest. (Unlike our friendly AAFES folks here on base). I wish nothing but good for MACs and hope to be able to afford one someday….
Anyway, we can debate more on the way to Big D!
Sincerely,
Capt Obvious
LMAO! I never expected you to think I was referring to you – I know your stance and am totally cool with it. Methinks you know who lit the fire under my ass to write this comparison. :-)
Anyhow, agreed – I like that Windows has quality competition from a quality competitor. It will only benefit everyone in the longrun, right?
Indeed, debate we shall on the way to Big D!
Love the comparison, particularly because I thought Dell were likely to be the cheapest. I work in an office where the SOE is Windows due to our CRM using some unique little IE-only effects. Thankfully, my bosses love me enough to provide me with a 24" iMac and allow me to run VMWare fusion.
The really cool part is arriving to work. We all check in around the same time and turn on our computers. My iMac takes around 30 seconds to boot, then about another 15 seconds to boot the virtual machine, then about 20 seconds to actually open up IE and sign in the the CRM. At this point, the guys are still looking at a shiny Windows XP logo with a loading bar at the bottom.
Needless to say, there are SOE change talks around the water cooler at the moment.
Funny that when the Mac debate is on many people comment :P
Anyway, I do like macs, always did and have been "working" with a mac that used to be from my dad ( a G4 ). Main reason I never bought one myself is because of the price and the compatibility with Windows as we use windows based software on school.
The percentage of broken/malfunctioning iPods that are being exchanged worldwide are between 30-50%, I think that is horribly inferior. The reason Apple exchanges them for free is because they almost cost nothing to produce. You call it good customer focus, I call it poor production, sorry.. And the reason why iPod sales are up up up is because of really effective marketing. Gotta give it to Apple, they do know how to market their products, it's very impressive.
Like I said, I don't know how good MacBooks are, because I know only a handful of people that use them.
You must be one of those lucky 50% whose iPod doesn't break. It's nearly impossible to find the exchange numbers, but I have seen several reports that exchange rates are between 30 and 50% of the total number of iPods. To me that is inferior. As you may know, Apple is less popular outside of the US, because there is more competition in other markets, especially the European market.
As I said, I don't know how their MacBooks compare. But looking at their starting prices they better be good quality :P
I'd really like to see confirmation of those stats, they sound highly out to me. I am particularly good friend with several directors in the Australian Apple business and I have never heard any such statistics from them.
To date I have personally owned a 20GB 4G iPod, a 512MB 1G iPod Shuffle, a 60GB iPod Video, a 32GB iPod Touch, an iPhone, an iMac, a MacBook and numerous accessories. Every one of which has managed to last it well beyond it's warranty date and into retirement.
Microsoft hands down provides the best solutions for enterprise business productivity: Exchange, Sharepoint, Office 2007 and the list goes on. Apple on the other hand — they've totally mastered style and niche applications, but their enterprise presence is lacking at best. As a plug for Apple though — I can say from having a contingency of Macs on my network — that they do in fact run problem-free. However, out of all my IT staffers, only one is proficient enough to be called our 'Mac Guy' — the others would need formal training or, a lot of OJT.
I like my iPhone. A lot. ;D
It's way more convincing if TCO and value are available in raw numbers – rather than opinion. Maybe we need to work something up on say, a sample network of 1000 PCs with a refresh cycle of 3 years. If migrating to Macs can prove cost-effective over 2 refreshes, I would work hard to make that shift.
There are some cool tools out that allow Windows to run virtually inside the Mac OS. One caveat: Additional expense for licensing the Microsoft software.
I will hunt for those numbers, but as you can imagine, these stats will be hard to find, precisely because they are so outrageous. And the reason why I believe these stats to be true is that I've been all over Europe and all I heard were complaints about iPods. It could be that Apple ships a worse product overseas, though.
Then again, I am not attached to Apple with an umbilical chord either, or any other brand for that matter.
Thanks for the excellent comparisons in your article. It is very helpful to have them.
Is there a catch with the CRM that forces you onto a Windows platform to run it?
VMware Fusion rocks. Although I bought a license for it, and installed Windows XP, I rarely if ever use it.
As for the windows license, if you already own one then you should be able to install in a VM at no extra cost.
–
Scott Jarkoff
http://techmiso.com
I know, I just don't like running stuff using a VM :]
You can actually grab some free virtual machines from Microsoft <a href=”http://http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?Famil...target=”_blank”>here.
Yeah there is. I'm not sure why, but it totally won't load in anything except IE6/IE7 under Windows. It's a really weird setup.
That is definitely a good point – without raw numbers then management will merely dismiss the thought outright.
The problem is not solely with management. Users would potentially require some additional training and the support staff would need to be able to properly troubleshoot Mac issues. The cost is not so simple to calculate.
But yeah, coming up with numbers is a great idea. Maybe we can work that in to a future article.
I kinda feel similar although on OSX it is arguably a lot more palatable than on Windows. I think the way Fusion functions compared to VMware Workstation is substantially different, making the idea of VM's a lot easier to swallow.
So you ready to go Mac yet? :D
Almost there! Keep talking….. I'm listening!
We've spoken about this – get your ass over to Yokota and pick up the MacBook Pro 15" they have sitting on the shelf. It's a sexy piece of hardware I tell you!
Methinks I might visit the Apple Store in Dallas this week and upgrade my HDD as we discussed. Still torn between a 500GB 5400RPM vs. 320GB 7200RPM.
Yes, I am, it's just a matter of what one. I'm torn between laptop and desktop. The keyboard and ease of use with my hand situation concerns me.
I would think that a good option would be to buy a MacBook/MacBook Pro and an accompanying stand/keyboard/mouse. This way you have the best of both worlds if you need it.
Thanks for your input, Mitch.
Good article. It's all a matter of preference. Something a lot of people seem to forget. In the end all these products are simply laptops, they all do verily the same thing, and aren't that drastic in difference of price like some point out.
I have nothing against Macs, I'm just not a Mac user. In elementary school all there was, was Macs and used them growing up. Then in high school we had Dell desktops. In the end I went PC because I learned how to operate them in my Commtech class and can get the most out of a PC personally. I know how to modify my PC to a tee now and it works for me… in University they have the newest slickest iMacs you could ever imagine.
I'm in an fine arts program and see them regularly… when I use them though I always end up frustrated now. Yet still I equate it to being say right handed and then trying to write with your left hand (or vice versa if you'd like).
What does bother me in the Mac/PC debate though is how everyone thinks that by having a Mac you instantly become artsy or more creative. Despite the fact that what those people in my program don't seem to realize being able to do more creative things with a computer comes down with one's knowledge and experience with the appropriate programs (such as Macromedia Flash or Photoshop).
Either way though I think people just need to educate themselves and learn that both PC's and Macs can co-exist. They are both computers in the end after all.
I went Mac back in Uni when I needed a go between for my heavily based Unix based degree. I didn't want to dual boot a Windows laptop as, well I was lazy and didn't want to set it up. Two people on my course had G4 Macs and were happily coding away, it was perfect. I budgeted and then bought a G4 Mac and I haven't looked back since. That G4 I only replaced this time last year when I bought an EOL MacBook which goes with me almost everywhere trip wise.
At work I use a Windows machine and happily switch between the two. My wife however does not like using my Mac as to her it's wierd and everything is wrong. From co-workers who know I use Macs I get stick about paying over the odds for something I could get cheaper however it's at this point where I make them aware of the fact that in the time I've owned two Mac based laptops (I'm excluding my iMac) my wife has had 3 laptops of varying makes all of which expired to hardware issues. That, for me, says it all. I'd rather pay that bit more for something I'm confident will last. I mean that G4 was only replaced because I wanted something new not because it was broken and is currently still used by the friend who bought it from me.
I *AM* an Apple hater. But, not because of the price point. I am an Apple hater because of my new MacBook Pro 13.3″ laptop. I hate the hyper-glossy display that acts as a mirror, I hate the oversized trackpad that is SO LARGE it is constantly be bumped as I type, I hate Snow Leopard that has caused an endless number of printing problems, I hate that iCal's alarms no longer function in Snow Leopard, and I hate that my “7-hour” polymer batter only lasts for 2.5 hours on a charge. I have bought Macs since my first Mac Classic in 1995, and also use PCs at the office.
Apple has sacrificed too much functionality for design aesthetics with regard to their hardware, and should never have released Snow Leopard when the did. As of today, December 9, 2009, Snow Leopard is not ready for prime time.
Time is money, and that's why I have always bought Macs for personal use. My next laptop will run Windows.
I have had my 1st generation ipod since it cam out and it still works fine. The battery doesn't hold a charge for more than three hours but this thing is a tank. All of my other MAC products still function fine.
as stated previously: ipods are tanks in my experience. Have 3 never had the first problem. You sound like someone who has never owned one. Just a mac hater im afraid.
“heard” no first hand experience? thought so.
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